16-03-2007, 06:51 PM
Vi este texto no F1 Linksheaven Blog e achei alguma piada. Desculpem ser em inglês mas não tive tempo para traduzir... :blink1:
ArrayAlright then, I am not very experienced in the world of video games, but I do know some of them are quite close enough to real world data, so we shall see if my massive amounts of time with Computational Fluid Dynamics and 25 years in the field can get us through this.
Im assuming there is some sort of default setup, that is meant to be middle ground for everyone to be able to handle on some level?
Well do this from scratch I guess. Just to try and get you on the right track, we are going to exclude reliability and ultimate quals pace type changes for now, just the basics to get you a foundation to build off of. So considering this is an old bugger, we need to try and get the most out of the chassis and the suspension. Especially since your having trouble on lower speeds which would more suggest mechanical grip issues than anything else off the bat. Now I dont know what default settings are, or what you all have tried, but just to get you rolling Ill take a blind stab at a few basic ideas you can play with, and you can report back where you get to. alright mate?
Now you mentioned you play around with fuel, wings, tyres, brake bias and gearing, but I see no mention to the most critical of critical things on low to mid speed cornering, and thats suspension. Maybe you just didnt mention it, but if your playing with the rest of those things and not doing anything to the suspension, it can cause lots of issues. Since Im going blind here, I will stick with things to look for in general and some things to try. I also dont know how realistic this game is, so I may be way off with what you can do and see. So sorry for any off the mark ideas. If it is close to real life, you have to remember the 79 cars are ground effects cars, and they tended to rely on tones of downforce to make thier speed, and mechanical grip wasnt always at a premium, so some of the issues your dealing with, are to some degree a built in by product of the era. However, if realism is present, you need to keep the suspension up with the aero so to speak.
If your bumping up wing settings to try and get better grip, you need to remember that 1. as you slow down, your losing a great deal of that aerodynamic help, and 2. if your turning more wing into it to help you, your going to make what you feel in the car worse, because the handling will improve in the fast bits, but when you get to that medium and lower speed corners, you lose all that, or much of it anyway, so when you make that adjustment, and go out to do some laps, you feel more confident in the high speed stuff, so you probably come in even hotter, and then your right back down to the grip levels you had before the adjustment because of the reduced effect of aerodynamics at lower speeds, I hope I made that understandable.
If the game has the telemetry for it, take a close look at how your tyres are coming up to temp, you want your rears to be getting up to temp a little quicker than the fronts, and then ideally leveling off within a reasonable range compared to the fronts, you also want to make sure that each tyre is within only a couple of degrees at most from both the inner shoulder, middle and outer shoulder of the tyre. Those numbers can give you good data as to how well your suspension is working. Help you to determine if your rear suspension is too soft or your ride height is too high, or if the car is bottoming and causing your handling problems. There is obviously a reason why the car is handling poorly. If the front is working well, and the rear is not, then we have to figure out if the rear can be made to work as well as the front, or if we need to change the front to balance out the rear. Its always a game of wheres the setup.
Now this may be overstating the obvious, but your sure your not locking up the rear brakes right? Because your back end issues at low and medium speeds on entry and heavy breaking swapping issues could definately be being caused by that. If the rear brake pressure or bias is too high, your gonna have those problems. Also if your duct is too small and your overheating the rears. Its also possible to be having too little going on in the rear, especially if its a snap oversteer situation. Its possible that with a softer suspension and not enough aero grip either from a setup point of view or because of the slower speeds of the corners and the lower aero efficiency of the older cars, that if the rear brake settings are too low a pressure bias or heat, the rear end is essentially carrying too much momentum compared with the front and under side loading, it wants to swap ends. This is a rarer occurance, but it is possible. I dont know what kind of telemetry data this game has, but if you can, take a look and make sure everything is up to snuff there.
Depending on what your diff settings are, if they are way out of kilter, you could have lockup issues there under braking too, so if necessary either play with those numbers some or try the defaults at first and we will move on to suspension.
When it comes to suspension, I would suggest you reset to default, and then take Spring rates, Anti Roll Bars, Ride Height, and Tyre Pressure, and only worry about those 4 areas until you get comfortable and get the car closer to where you want it, because in general, fast and slow rebound and bump settings, camber, and packers are all except for camber more fine tuning adjustments than major wholesale changes, they can make a world of difference, but thier much more effective after you have mastered the more general areas. Camber especially is an area where you can really get yourself into handling trouble if you dont know what your doing, it can drastically alter handling, tyre effectiveness and wear, and you really should have everything else down pat before you begin severely fiddling with its settings. Then after you have all that down, you should be able to sort out how to adjust caster and toe to really start getting the most out of the car. But take it in steps, work on one area and dont get ahead of yourself.
Your main complaints are with oversteer, and especially under braking and entry to corners, so I would suggest really focusing on how and why thats happening. Dont be afraid to do some massive adjustments on one single area and then do some laps to try and figure out what is up. Id honestly suggest to you, just for your own learning experience, take your car, and start at default settings, do some laps, then take each major component, and adjust it to its farthest reaches if need be, do a few laps, go back to default and take another single component and do the same process. Some things will be obvious, but some might suprise you, and you will get a gross overstatement of what exactly what each adjustment will do. Its fine and good to read a guide of what adjusting the front anti roll bar will do, but it can be much more effective to you, to feel what it does, and only what it does, isolate each setting and you can learn a lot.
Alright, Im starting to ramble on here, so just read through that lot, and make what sense of the situation you can, and report back, try to give me some feedback if you can so I can help you work to a much more specific approach, because I understand Im giving you awfully broad term ideas, and somewhat vague approaches, but I need to get to grips with the playing field here before I can steer you in a more usefull direction. Hopefully we can figure it out. Good luck mate. Cheers.[/quote]
ArrayAlright then, I am not very experienced in the world of video games, but I do know some of them are quite close enough to real world data, so we shall see if my massive amounts of time with Computational Fluid Dynamics and 25 years in the field can get us through this.
Im assuming there is some sort of default setup, that is meant to be middle ground for everyone to be able to handle on some level?
Well do this from scratch I guess. Just to try and get you on the right track, we are going to exclude reliability and ultimate quals pace type changes for now, just the basics to get you a foundation to build off of. So considering this is an old bugger, we need to try and get the most out of the chassis and the suspension. Especially since your having trouble on lower speeds which would more suggest mechanical grip issues than anything else off the bat. Now I dont know what default settings are, or what you all have tried, but just to get you rolling Ill take a blind stab at a few basic ideas you can play with, and you can report back where you get to. alright mate?
Now you mentioned you play around with fuel, wings, tyres, brake bias and gearing, but I see no mention to the most critical of critical things on low to mid speed cornering, and thats suspension. Maybe you just didnt mention it, but if your playing with the rest of those things and not doing anything to the suspension, it can cause lots of issues. Since Im going blind here, I will stick with things to look for in general and some things to try. I also dont know how realistic this game is, so I may be way off with what you can do and see. So sorry for any off the mark ideas. If it is close to real life, you have to remember the 79 cars are ground effects cars, and they tended to rely on tones of downforce to make thier speed, and mechanical grip wasnt always at a premium, so some of the issues your dealing with, are to some degree a built in by product of the era. However, if realism is present, you need to keep the suspension up with the aero so to speak.
If your bumping up wing settings to try and get better grip, you need to remember that 1. as you slow down, your losing a great deal of that aerodynamic help, and 2. if your turning more wing into it to help you, your going to make what you feel in the car worse, because the handling will improve in the fast bits, but when you get to that medium and lower speed corners, you lose all that, or much of it anyway, so when you make that adjustment, and go out to do some laps, you feel more confident in the high speed stuff, so you probably come in even hotter, and then your right back down to the grip levels you had before the adjustment because of the reduced effect of aerodynamics at lower speeds, I hope I made that understandable.
If the game has the telemetry for it, take a close look at how your tyres are coming up to temp, you want your rears to be getting up to temp a little quicker than the fronts, and then ideally leveling off within a reasonable range compared to the fronts, you also want to make sure that each tyre is within only a couple of degrees at most from both the inner shoulder, middle and outer shoulder of the tyre. Those numbers can give you good data as to how well your suspension is working. Help you to determine if your rear suspension is too soft or your ride height is too high, or if the car is bottoming and causing your handling problems. There is obviously a reason why the car is handling poorly. If the front is working well, and the rear is not, then we have to figure out if the rear can be made to work as well as the front, or if we need to change the front to balance out the rear. Its always a game of wheres the setup.
Now this may be overstating the obvious, but your sure your not locking up the rear brakes right? Because your back end issues at low and medium speeds on entry and heavy breaking swapping issues could definately be being caused by that. If the rear brake pressure or bias is too high, your gonna have those problems. Also if your duct is too small and your overheating the rears. Its also possible to be having too little going on in the rear, especially if its a snap oversteer situation. Its possible that with a softer suspension and not enough aero grip either from a setup point of view or because of the slower speeds of the corners and the lower aero efficiency of the older cars, that if the rear brake settings are too low a pressure bias or heat, the rear end is essentially carrying too much momentum compared with the front and under side loading, it wants to swap ends. This is a rarer occurance, but it is possible. I dont know what kind of telemetry data this game has, but if you can, take a look and make sure everything is up to snuff there.
Depending on what your diff settings are, if they are way out of kilter, you could have lockup issues there under braking too, so if necessary either play with those numbers some or try the defaults at first and we will move on to suspension.
When it comes to suspension, I would suggest you reset to default, and then take Spring rates, Anti Roll Bars, Ride Height, and Tyre Pressure, and only worry about those 4 areas until you get comfortable and get the car closer to where you want it, because in general, fast and slow rebound and bump settings, camber, and packers are all except for camber more fine tuning adjustments than major wholesale changes, they can make a world of difference, but thier much more effective after you have mastered the more general areas. Camber especially is an area where you can really get yourself into handling trouble if you dont know what your doing, it can drastically alter handling, tyre effectiveness and wear, and you really should have everything else down pat before you begin severely fiddling with its settings. Then after you have all that down, you should be able to sort out how to adjust caster and toe to really start getting the most out of the car. But take it in steps, work on one area and dont get ahead of yourself.
Your main complaints are with oversteer, and especially under braking and entry to corners, so I would suggest really focusing on how and why thats happening. Dont be afraid to do some massive adjustments on one single area and then do some laps to try and figure out what is up. Id honestly suggest to you, just for your own learning experience, take your car, and start at default settings, do some laps, then take each major component, and adjust it to its farthest reaches if need be, do a few laps, go back to default and take another single component and do the same process. Some things will be obvious, but some might suprise you, and you will get a gross overstatement of what exactly what each adjustment will do. Its fine and good to read a guide of what adjusting the front anti roll bar will do, but it can be much more effective to you, to feel what it does, and only what it does, isolate each setting and you can learn a lot.
Alright, Im starting to ramble on here, so just read through that lot, and make what sense of the situation you can, and report back, try to give me some feedback if you can so I can help you work to a much more specific approach, because I understand Im giving you awfully broad term ideas, and somewhat vague approaches, but I need to get to grips with the playing field here before I can steer you in a more usefull direction. Hopefully we can figure it out. Good luck mate. Cheers.[/quote]
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